Courtadell
The bar I work at has a karaoke system that consists of two Yorkville Elite SW800 subwoofers, one TOA 15" full-range speaker, a Pioneer VSX-516 home theater receiver and a CAVS DVD-203G karaoke DVD player.
They have two Shure C606 microphones connected to the DVD player with XLR to 1/4" cables.
The system has potential, but it sounds like absolute garbage. A lot of people complain about its quality and I agree with them because the microphones sound utterly flat and distort easily. If you turn the microphone gain too loud, it causes bad feedback.
I'm sure the microphones are okay, and the problem lies in the 1/4" connectors and no equalizer of any sort. Rather, the microphones would be better off being connected to a professional mixer with XLR inputs.
music sounds good on the system, but the biggest issue is the dynamics of the microphones and the bad feedback. Are there any components that can be purchased that will prevent feedback and allow us to aim the speakers towards the singers so the rest of the bar can hear the music clearly? Right now they're pointed to the side to keep the feedback to a minimum. The bar is fairly small and has wooden walls, if that makes any difference.
The owners don't want to spend a lot of money on a whole new system because they claim it sounds good enough as it is. They don't know much about audio and dynamics and whatnot and I'm a DJ so I can tell that the system sounds really crappy in its current state. I just want to know what components can be purchased that won't be too expensive and will solve the bad microphone quality problem once and for all.
Answer
There are multiple problems with that system.
mics are pretty low quality but if you fix the pa amp, you probably will be ok
you need to run the mics into a REAL pa amp/mixer with XLR inputs - even a cheap one will work much better - it will also have EQ for each channel - when you have subs, you need to make sure that the vocals have the lows backed WAY off, otherwise they will sound very muddy - a nice powered mixer will work great and will not be too expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUROPOWER-PMP1000-500-Watt-12-Channel/dp/B00117RP6I/ref=sr_1_7?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1343924485&sr=1-7&keywords=behringer+powered+mixer
check your TOA speaker - make sure the tweeter is not blown - put your ear up to it - you should hear the highs clearly
How are the subs hooked up?? I assume you have a separate power amp for them - you should not try to connect them directly to the home theater amp - get a separate stereo power amp:
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EP4000-Professional-Accelerated-Technology/dp/B001U5JFNM/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1343924683&sr=1-1&keywords=behringer+ep4000
If you live anywhere near the state of CT, USA I can help you.
dankeifer@yahoo.com if you have other questions
There are multiple problems with that system.
mics are pretty low quality but if you fix the pa amp, you probably will be ok
you need to run the mics into a REAL pa amp/mixer with XLR inputs - even a cheap one will work much better - it will also have EQ for each channel - when you have subs, you need to make sure that the vocals have the lows backed WAY off, otherwise they will sound very muddy - a nice powered mixer will work great and will not be too expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUROPOWER-PMP1000-500-Watt-12-Channel/dp/B00117RP6I/ref=sr_1_7?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1343924485&sr=1-7&keywords=behringer+powered+mixer
check your TOA speaker - make sure the tweeter is not blown - put your ear up to it - you should hear the highs clearly
How are the subs hooked up?? I assume you have a separate power amp for them - you should not try to connect them directly to the home theater amp - get a separate stereo power amp:
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EP4000-Professional-Accelerated-Technology/dp/B001U5JFNM/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1343924683&sr=1-1&keywords=behringer+ep4000
If you live anywhere near the state of CT, USA I can help you.
dankeifer@yahoo.com if you have other questions
How can this karaoke system be improved without having to spend too much money?
Courtadell
The bar I work at has a karaoke system that consists of two Yorkville Elite SW800 subwoofers, one TOA 15" full-range speaker, a Pioneer VSX-516 home theater receiver and a CAVS DVD-203G karaoke DVD player.
They have two Shure C606 microphones connected to the DVD player with XLR to 1/4" cables.
The system has potential, but it sounds like absolute garbage. A lot of people complain about its quality and I agree with them because the microphones sound utterly flat and distort easily. If you turn the microphone gain too loud, it causes bad feedback.
I'm sure the microphones are okay, and the problem lies in the 1/4" connectors and no equalizer of any sort. Rather, the microphones would be better off being connected to a professional mixer with XLR inputs.
Music sounds good on the system, but the biggest issue is the dynamics of the microphones and the bad feedback. Are there any components that can be purchased that will prevent feedback and allow us to aim the speakers towards the singers so the rest of the bar can hear the music clearly? Right now they're pointed to the side to keep the feedback to a minimum. The bar is fairly small and has wooden walls, if that makes any difference.
The owners don't want to spend a lot of money on a whole new system because they claim it sounds good enough as it is. They don't know much about audio and dynamics and whatnot and I'm a DJ so I can tell that the system sounds really crappy in its current state. I just want to know what components can be purchased that won't be too expensive and will solve the bad microphone quality problem once and for all.
Answer
I think you're right about the dynamics being a problem. I don't agree thought that it's the jack cable connections. 1/4" jack works perfectly well in all the karaoke systems I have installed.
Here's a quick summary of where I think the problems are and why...
1) the mics suck.... They're real budget gear and not so effective and don't have the dynamic headroom to handle vocalist who aren't trained in mic technique, and they're not directional enough to isolating the vocalist effectively from the sound from the PA. Get a pair of Shure SM58
2) teach your singers how to use the mics properly... Good vocalist mics will help reduce feedback if used correctly. Get the singers to put the mic almost touching their lips
3) the mic inputs on the karaoke machine also have limited dynamic range.... You need a mixer, one with reverb to help fill out the voices more effectively and with some sort of VU meters so you can see overload and react a bit quicker. This will be better than using a cheap feedback suppressor
4) The AV receiver has a lot of paper watts when you add up its 5 channels, but isn't up to the task of driving a power hungry speaker from a single channel.... When business improves have a look at changing to a proper PA power amp
5) The speaker positioning might be able to be improved... This is a cheap fix. In the absence of a monitor speaker pull the bass cabs forward in front of the singer. The full range speaker can go at head height and back and off to one side; you want a good 2-3 ft separation. The effect you're looking for is the sound beaming past the singer. They'll be able to hear enough to monitor their own performance without getting in the way of the sound and creating a feedback loop.
The cheap fixes are the mics, mic technique and the speaker position. Then go for the mixer, then the amp. Here's some useful extra reading http://www.bartlettmics.com/10_tips_to_reduce_feedback.pdf
I think you're right about the dynamics being a problem. I don't agree thought that it's the jack cable connections. 1/4" jack works perfectly well in all the karaoke systems I have installed.
Here's a quick summary of where I think the problems are and why...
1) the mics suck.... They're real budget gear and not so effective and don't have the dynamic headroom to handle vocalist who aren't trained in mic technique, and they're not directional enough to isolating the vocalist effectively from the sound from the PA. Get a pair of Shure SM58
2) teach your singers how to use the mics properly... Good vocalist mics will help reduce feedback if used correctly. Get the singers to put the mic almost touching their lips
3) the mic inputs on the karaoke machine also have limited dynamic range.... You need a mixer, one with reverb to help fill out the voices more effectively and with some sort of VU meters so you can see overload and react a bit quicker. This will be better than using a cheap feedback suppressor
4) The AV receiver has a lot of paper watts when you add up its 5 channels, but isn't up to the task of driving a power hungry speaker from a single channel.... When business improves have a look at changing to a proper PA power amp
5) The speaker positioning might be able to be improved... This is a cheap fix. In the absence of a monitor speaker pull the bass cabs forward in front of the singer. The full range speaker can go at head height and back and off to one side; you want a good 2-3 ft separation. The effect you're looking for is the sound beaming past the singer. They'll be able to hear enough to monitor their own performance without getting in the way of the sound and creating a feedback loop.
The cheap fixes are the mics, mic technique and the speaker position. Then go for the mixer, then the amp. Here's some useful extra reading http://www.bartlettmics.com/10_tips_to_reduce_feedback.pdf
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Title Post: How can this karaoke system be improved without having to spend too much money?
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Author: Yukie
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